Seamus~ I went with tht image as it seemed to sum up what I wanted to say as succinctly as possible.
Goldennib~ Here is definitely better than there!:P
Weirsdo~ A well outlined exit strategy would please me no end.
Lime~ Message passed!
Diesel~ Can you find me any extended period of time when Mesopotamia has not been embroiled in extreme unrest or open war? Weirsdo's point is well made though, if my kids go to play in a friend's messy room I still make them clean up the part of the disaster they are responsible before they head for home. Leave it better than you found it, not worse, you know, all THOSE cliches. (Tosses you a nice fresh orange to snack on.) I'm related to alot of conservatives, I won't be a hatah as long as you mind your manners.
Snav~ YES! I love it when people listen to me, or rather, bumper stickers I've blantantly stolen and posted.
Let's say your kid goes over to his friend's house, and his friend has his two little sisters tied up in the closet. So your kid unties the two sisters and smacks his friend in the head for being a jerk. Then the two sisters start fighting like cats and dogs, making a horrific mess of their room, and your kid realizes there was a reason that his friend had them tied up.
Just then you walk in and say to your kid, "Ok, clean up your part of this mess and let's go home." Your kid looks at you like you're crazy, then shrugs his shoulders and walks out.
I love stretching metaphors beyond all reasonable usefulness. :)
(Oh, and I do too own slaves. At least until they're 18.)
Susie~ No, no, we don't encourage them to think bedrooms are their business! :p
Diesel~ This would be the small person who told you to stop whistling because, "it annoys the queen"? Just wanted to clarify the level of your delusion.
Diesel, you gotta be proud of me for staying out of this one for so long. I think I have used me chits up on arguing the war for now. But for clarity:
Having the two sisters tied up in the closet was Saddam's trick for how he kept the sectarian civil war from happening during his reign? And when we untied the sisters we realized that maybe they were better off tied up? Is that what your analogy suggests?
Saddam did have a way of managing his complex demographic. I'm not supporting that despot any more than our own, just sayin' that there was less strife, death, starvation, loss of basic utlities and terrorism in Iraq before the war. hmmm. And now that our administration has lost the faith of our own people by pre-emptively striking another country that we falsely feared might attack us, killing innocent people, the line between Bush and the Iraqis and Saddam and the kurds is rather blurry.
I think I will write a post where I describe the actions of Saddam and Bush without naming them and you have to pick which one is which. a New Tom's challenge!
Diesel, my comment was rather brash and I expected a retort and always tip my hat to a snappy comeback. However, I'd like to point out that if a BJ from a willing participant constituted rape, then I know a lot of people who would be in a lot of trouble right now.
That said, Wild bill is guilty of adultery and perjury, which are bad things, but like the bumper sticker says, "no one died when Clinton lied."
Let me tell you where some of my reaction was coming from-- and this should be interesting to any reader: I happened to have just found out that the torture bill that McCain just pushed through included an exoneration for current administrators so that they can't be retroactively prosecuted in the US for war crimes.
So, here we are trying Saddam Hussein for incarcerating people against their will (against the Geneva convention), torture (agains the Geneva convention) and the killing of innocent people in reprisal of an attack (I guess it was a an assasination attempt for Saddam, 9/11 for Bush). All of which have been perpetrated by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Germany is talking of trying Rumsfeld in absentia and if the Hague picks it up, though unlikely, Rummy could not be safe leaving the US for fear of getting arrested. Here's some backup:
Though he's not optimistic that any international body will take the case, Former State Dept. and CIA analyst Melvin Goodman says:
"Well, I think the record is quite clear. War crimes have been committed. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld combined to sponsor the memos by John Yoo and Jay Bybee and others to sanction torture. CIA officials have committed war crimes. DOD officials have committed war crimes. If you look at the three decisions of the Supreme Court -- Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, Rasul v. Bush -- clearly laws have been broken, serious laws have been broken."
Anyway, do your own investigation but remember that the Supreme court has already weighed in on some of the allegations I make and found Bush at fault.
So, this stuff pisses me off. You may wonder what the hell can we do about it. I guess after the last election my answer would be, "quite a bit, collectively"
Actually, I am going to make a post out of this with some of the new stuff that I have been researching so anyone can choose to pick this up and continue there or not. I know Diesel well enough to know that he may not want to "go there" the way I do, so Diesel, I know you don't feel obligated.
And I also don't want to hijack this commentary more than I already have. So if anyone is interested in continuing my hijacked direction you may visit my blog or not. I will check back here for comments as well.
Oh how I do go off. My apologies to you, logo, for such.
Tom, I'm just so glad you pulled out that "Nobody died when Clinton lied" line. It just so happens that I've made a lot of money on those bumper stickers. And the funny thing is, I had a warehouse full of 'em until I pasted "Clinton" over "Nixon."
Diesel~ Now I know for sure you are lying about your quiz. Anyone who get turned on reading the Wall Street Journal definitely lusts after Janet Reno. You're a dirty, dirty man.
Tom~ feel free to discuss at will, mi comment box es su your comment box. I'm enjoying watching the volley. No apology needed.
Logo - I didn't say that Janet was my holdout. I just can't see myself with Uma. Janet Reno, on the other hand, has an aura of mystery. Is she a woman? A man? Animal? Vegetable? Mineral? No way to tell without takin' a trip to downtown Reno, if you know what I mean.
26 comments:
Hear, hear!
I agree. But I hope we don't just leave the Iraqi troops to clean up our mess on their own.
yes, please...
and thank you to mr logo for his years of service.
"Our mess." Because Iraq was a garden paradise before we got there.
After all, what's the point of overthrowing a repressive regime if the country is just going to descend into civil war?
...said the pro-British slave-owner.
You may now proceed to throw rotten vegetables at me.
Here, here!
Seamus~ I went with tht image as it seemed to sum up what I wanted to say as succinctly as possible.
Goldennib~ Here is definitely better than there!:P
Weirsdo~ A well outlined exit strategy would please me no end.
Lime~ Message passed!
Diesel~ Can you find me any extended period of time when Mesopotamia has not been embroiled in extreme unrest or open war? Weirsdo's point is well made though, if my kids go to play in a friend's messy room I still make them clean up the part of the disaster they are responsible before they head for home. Leave it better than you found it, not worse, you know, all THOSE cliches.
(Tosses you a nice fresh orange to snack on.) I'm related to alot of conservatives, I won't be a hatah as long as you mind your manners.
Snav~ YES! I love it when people listen to me, or rather, bumper stickers I've blantantly stolen and posted.
Amen sister!
But first clean up the Iraqis bedrooms on Friday before you exit their country
Let's say your kid goes over to his friend's house, and his friend has his two little sisters tied up in the closet. So your kid unties the two sisters and smacks his friend in the head for being a jerk. Then the two sisters start fighting like cats and dogs, making a horrific mess of their room, and your kid realizes there was a reason that his friend had them tied up.
Just then you walk in and say to your kid, "Ok, clean up your part of this mess and let's go home." Your kid looks at you like you're crazy, then shrugs his shoulders and walks out.
I love stretching metaphors beyond all reasonable usefulness. :)
(Oh, and I do too own slaves. At least until they're 18.)
Susie~ No, no, we don't encourage them to think bedrooms are their business! :p
Diesel~ This would be the small person who told you to stop whistling because, "it annoys the queen"? Just wanted to clarify the level of your delusion.
Blither~ Thanks!
Logo - Good point. Gotta go - Her Majesty beckons.
Poignant and appropriate. Thanks! Oh, Target does not suck. I don't care what you say.
Love deisels metaphor but, who gave that brother the tapes and rope in the first place to tie up the sisters?
WE did
Diesel, you gotta be proud of me for staying out of this one for so long. I think I have used me chits up on arguing the war for now.
But for clarity:
Having the two sisters tied up in the closet was Saddam's trick for how he kept the sectarian civil war from happening during his reign? And when we untied the sisters we realized that maybe they were better off tied up? Is that what your analogy suggests?
Saddam did have a way of managing his complex demographic. I'm not supporting that despot any more than our own, just sayin' that there was less strife, death, starvation, loss of basic utlities and terrorism in Iraq before the war. hmmm. And now that our administration has lost the faith of our own people by pre-emptively striking another country that we falsely feared might attack us, killing innocent people, the line between Bush and the Iraqis and Saddam and the kurds is rather blurry.
I think I will write a post where I describe the actions of Saddam and Bush without naming them and you have to pick which one is which. a New Tom's challenge!
Tom - Ooh, and do one where you can't tell Bill Clinton from a drunken frat-boy rapist. Fair's fair. ;)
Diesel~ Oh sure, go hide behind a 5 year old girl, yeah right you got a one on your quiz, whatev.
Grunty~ Speak not ill of the Targay, not impugn mine honor, thou filthy dog! :p
Susie~ I don't think you should encourage him.
Tom~ That might be an interesting read.
Diesel~ Dude, go read internet porn like everyone else, you don't really need Tom to write it for you :p What did you get on the quiz again?!?!
"Read" porn? What am I, a girl? I only get turned on reading the Wall Street Journal opinion page.
Diesel, my comment was rather brash and I expected a retort and always tip my hat to a snappy comeback. However, I'd like to point out that if a BJ from a willing participant constituted rape, then I know a lot of people who would be in a lot of trouble right now.
That said, Wild bill is guilty of adultery and perjury, which are bad things, but like the bumper sticker says, "no one died when Clinton lied."
Let me tell you where some of my reaction was coming from-- and this should be interesting to any reader: I happened to have just found out that the torture bill that McCain just pushed through included an exoneration for current administrators so that they can't be retroactively prosecuted in the US for war crimes.
So, here we are trying Saddam Hussein for incarcerating people against their will (against the Geneva convention), torture (agains the Geneva convention) and the killing of innocent people in reprisal of an attack (I guess it was a an assasination attempt for Saddam, 9/11 for Bush). All of which have been perpetrated by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Germany is talking of trying Rumsfeld in absentia and if the Hague picks it up, though unlikely, Rummy could not be safe leaving the US for fear of getting arrested. Here's some backup:
Though he's not optimistic that any international body will take the case, Former State Dept. and CIA analyst Melvin Goodman says:
"Well, I think the record is quite clear. War crimes have been committed. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld combined to sponsor the memos by John Yoo and Jay Bybee and others to sanction torture. CIA officials have committed war crimes. DOD officials have committed war crimes. If you look at the three decisions of the Supreme Court -- Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, Rasul v. Bush -- clearly laws have been broken, serious laws have been broken."
Anyway, do your own investigation but remember that the Supreme court has already weighed in on some of the allegations I make and found Bush at fault.
So, this stuff pisses me off. You may wonder what the hell can we do about it. I guess after the last election my answer would be, "quite a bit, collectively"
Actually, I am going to make a post out of this with some of the new stuff that I have been researching so anyone can choose to pick this up and continue there or not. I know Diesel well enough to know that he may not want to "go there" the way I do, so Diesel, I know you don't feel obligated.
And I also don't want to hijack this commentary more than I already have. So if anyone is interested in continuing my hijacked direction you may visit my blog or not. I will check back here for comments as well.
Oh how I do go off. My apologies to you, logo, for such.
Cheers and best to all.
Tom, I'm just so glad you pulled out that "Nobody died when Clinton lied" line. It just so happens that I've made a lot of money on those bumper stickers. And the funny thing is, I had a warehouse full of 'em until I pasted "Clinton" over "Nixon."
Peace out. :)
Ha! good one! Can I use that?
Diesel~ Now I know for sure you are lying about your quiz. Anyone who get turned on reading the Wall Street Journal definitely lusts after Janet Reno. You're a dirty, dirty man.
Tom~ feel free to discuss at will, mi comment box es su your comment box. I'm enjoying watching the volley. No apology needed.
Tom - You can and may.
Logo - I didn't say that Janet was my holdout. I just can't see myself with Uma. Janet Reno, on the other hand, has an aura of mystery. Is she a woman? A man? Animal? Vegetable? Mineral? No way to tell without takin' a trip to downtown Reno, if you know what I mean.
You liberals are all the same. You make it sounds so damn easy to bring the troops home. You're soft on defense and weak on strategic planning.
Pssst: I was kidding.
Diesel~ I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
Egan~ Leave liberal ideology out of it, and quit looking at my kid like that!
I should have seen that coming. How far was he in?
Ok, time to scrub my brain with Ajax.
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